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Shuttle 358


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#61 sep

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 01:21 AM

I just listened to "System" and "Tank" from Optimal.lp for the first time, so good! Especially "Tank", so nice.

revised top 5 list:

1. "Logical"
2. "Tank"
3. "Calty"
4. "Frame"
5. "Duh", "Floops", "West Nile", "Isonpgn", "Melt", "Marche", "System", "Lyndon Tree", "Dead Leaves", "Scrapbook", "Nerf", "Spiff", "Gone"
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#62 ghost

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:38 AM

Loscil is the king of microengineering music imo
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#63 sep

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:46 AM

I haven't listened to any Loscil. Which albums do you recommend?
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#64 Abelian

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:47 AM

For me Loscil is much more static and passive, but quite good still. I would recommend Submerse, Plume or Triple Point.

And sepoe, how did you go so long not hearing those two songs on Optimal?
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#65 sep

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:53 AM

dunno, I guess I've been kind of ignoring Optimal until recently. Now I don't know if I can pick a favorite out of Chessa, Frame and Optimal, they're all excellent.
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#66 ghost

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 03:58 AM

For more active Loscil I'd go with Triple Point
Serious headphone music, no point in listening to it on speakers
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#67 Abelian

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 04:07 AM

dunno, I guess I've been kind of ignoring Optimal until recently. Now I don't know if I can pick a favorite out of Chessa, Frame and Optimal, they're all excellent.


They really are all excellent. Have you heard Understanding Wildlife? Not quite on the same level of excellence, but I'm sure you wouldn't be sorry to hear it.
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#68 sep

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 04:08 AM

no I was thinking about downloading that just now

didn't he also do an album with Taylor Deupree?
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#69 Abelian

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 04:15 AM

He was supposed to release that collab this year sometime but never did.
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#70 vwΛvWvΛwv

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 04:24 AM

...
Have you heard Understanding Wildlife? Not quite on the same level of excellence, but I'm sure you wouldn't be sorry to hear it.


That's the only album I've yet to hear BRB
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#71 Ender

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 06:16 AM


i just wanted to say that I think Shuttle358 is just as good for the background as it is for focused listening.


i disagree. while shuttle does have some interest upon extremely focused listening, it moves way too slow to be rewarding. Saying that shuttle is enjoyable while focusing on it very close, is like saying that a lava lamp is extremely stimulating by staring at it.


lol I've had some decent times staring at a lava lamp so maybe you're onto something here.

For real though, not to derail this thread too far (we can continue this discussion in the Shuttle thread), but I think if you know how to listen out for "microsounds", Shuttle suddenly becomes very engaging at the focused-listening level.


microsounds :blink:


i think i understand what you are saying, but again back to the lava lamp, i suppose if you started to really imagine there being small meta compositions within the lava lamp it may become more interesting to yourself, maybe like a mental game or something. i like shuttle 358 but if i really want to sit down and pay extremely close attention to music, it is one of the last things i would ever want to listen too.


Microsound isn't a term I made up by the way. People use it to refer to music like Shuttle358's, Alva Noto's, Tetsu Inoue's, even Iannis Xenakis's. It's a pretty simple idea - what's happening within the second-by-second small scale framework of a song is more important than what's happening in the minute-by-minute large scale framework of the song. If you turn up the volume, use good headphones, and combine the right strains of weed you will hear an absolute wealth of detail in any 2 second snippet of a Shuttle358 song. At that point the music becomes almost the opposite of "background music" - more like a sonic overload. That's also why the slow tempos you said make this music unfit for close attention actually serve it perfectly. It can take a lot of listens for the music to click in this way, and for some it never does. But that is how this music can reward extremely close attention.

Also, jokes aside the lava lamp analogy is really not accurate. Maybe if the lava lamp could constantly change color and the little blobs moved about in fantastic patterns, and every couple minutes it all changed into something completely different.


i don't smoke weed often, maybe thats my problem, haha idk. i mean sure i appreciate these "micro sounds" i mean i find myself listening to things that aren't normally consider music very often. speech, nature, room space etc... and i understand what you mean by micro sounds, to me this is like analyzing every signal dot in a pointalism painting. ultimately, sure this can be rewarding, looking at each individual dot, its shape, its color, its relation to other dots, can be nice. but for me, its the whole painting that i find interesting, its the sum of these micro sounds thats interesting, not the microsounds (or dots) themselves, they are erroneous to me, they serve no purpose other than to form the full picture.

the lava lamp was obviously for the lols.
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#72 sep

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 07:03 AM

the microsounds serve a big purpose. But that's okay if you prefer looking at just the big picture rather than the building blocks. Though I like small subtle things like that and I guess I find the more analytical approach more rewarding too.

also I've never smoked so I have never tried this kind of music under that particular kind of super aware condition. but do want.
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#73 Ender

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 08:14 AM

i imagine that weed would in fact enhance this musics enjoyability. for most music it makes me enjoy it less, and enjoy making music even less.
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#74 sep

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Posted 01 November 2009 - 01:29 PM

it does probably enhance the already hugely enjoyable listening experience, and that's fascinating enough
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#75 nivius

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:20 AM

i don't smoke weed often, maybe thats my problem, haha idk. i mean sure i appreciate these "micro sounds" i mean i find myself listening to things that aren't normally consider music very often. speech, nature, room space etc... and i understand what you mean by micro sounds, to me this is like analyzing every signal dot in a pointalism painting. ultimately, sure this can be rewarding, looking at each individual dot, its shape, its color, its relation to other dots, can be nice. but for me, its the whole painting that i find interesting, its the sum of these micro sounds thats interesting, not the microsounds (or dots) themselves, they are erroneous to me, they serve no purpose other than to form the full picture.

the lava lamp was obviously for the lols.


But examining those dots IS the point of Pointillism. That method of working is all about creating larger forms through small details - those paintings call for the viewer to notice that certain blocks of color can be formed out of these tiny nodules of other colors... its all about examining the whole, and then moving in to the details, and then moving back out. That is exactly the point of Pointillism and it's exactly the way to listen to these Shuttle pieces - the amount of information is incredibly dense, tons of little constant changes that make an effect on the whole song. I have a hard time imagining what there is to be bored by with Shuttle....there's so much sonic material in there, and the whole is so heart-achingly beautiful.

You can't understand wholes without understanding details.


What do you guys think about Fenton, his Japanese alias?


Not a frequent listen for me, though I do like. "Neon Giraffe" stands out for me, beautiful song, but maybe a bit too reminiscent of some of my favorite Shuttle358 songs.

Dan Abram's solo album Stream is an interesting listen, further away from the Shuttle sound. More austere and mechanical.

Top 5 Shuttle358 songs anyone?

1. Logical
2. Fissure
3. Frame
4. Lyndon Tree
5. Swarm / Gone / Floops / Out Out / Broom / Calty / Isonpgn / Spiff / Chessa / Blast / Duh / Nerf / West Nile / Scrapbook

I usually have a top 3 or 4 songs and then a huge tie after that. Which songs are at the top tend to rotate, but Logical has been a favorite for a long time.


1. Duh
2. Calty
3. Scrapbook
4. Lyndon Tree
5. Isonpgn/Logical

probably? I might answer 2-5 differently at any other moment, but Duh is my consistent favorite.
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#76 Ender

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 02:50 PM

woah, i never said i was bored with shuttle, i find the music to be very engaging. i just doesnt demand strenuous attention from me. i feel completely satisfied just drifting through it. this for me is more rewarding than really delving in and picking up on every little detail, this demands too much attention and isnt rewarding enough.
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#77 Abelian

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 02:54 PM

I agree with both views, certainly I've fallen asleep to Shuttle countless times and I don't pay particularly close attention to each sonic detail at those times. I only wanted to offer a defense for super-attentive listening and describe the rewards it can offer with this music.
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#78 DoTheySmoke....Astroturf?

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 12:22 AM

So I've been listening to this dude, and, umm, it's really damn good, really, isn't it.

Mellow but also creepy beneath. Cavernous but also really warm sounds. Reminds me of the Boards of Canada (a Very Good Thing).
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#79 tremulants

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Posted 01 October 2010 - 10:12 PM

So this guy has been on repeat for days. Frame has a real late winter, early spring sound. Broom is so excellent on headphones.
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#80 static

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Posted 02 October 2010 - 10:57 AM

BoC and Shuttle are two completely different animals
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